A Victory for the Nanny State
I don't know. I don't think they can ban it entirely. But, hey, a King County judge said it ain't so, so it must not be so.
I hope the appeal goes on. I gamble everyday on the internet, but it's not called gambling- it is the stock market.
I also get somewhat concerned that a self-appointed attorney is arguing this case. Is he the right guy to carry the fight? No one knows because he doesn't pay himself. There is something about paying for something that makes the individual 'vested' and make the individual get the best representation possible. Posted by: swatter
Eric:
But it makes perfect sense that Gregoire thinks I should not be able to gamble at home, or in the bar eight miles away, but that it is perfectly OK to gamble -- and to expand gambling -- in the casino that's only three miles away.
Doesn't that make sense to you?
Because if so, can you explain it to me?
I gamble for money online, playing poker. I won $2 the other night. If they want to arrest me for that, they can go right ahead. They will rue the day. :) Posted by: pudge
The tribes own Gregoire... since she signs compacts allowing huge expansions of tribal gambling (Remember the tribes throwing a fit over I-892? Gambling expansion is absolutely awful... UNLESS it's tribal gambling... then, not so much.) without getting anything for this state from the revenue. Posted by: Hinton
This is more ammo for the Libertarians. This law was passed at the state level by our Dem-controlled legislature, and signed by Gov. Gregoire. A similar version was passed by the then R-controlled U.S. Congress.
I am social-liberal/economic-conservative. I wish that either the Dems would practice the social liberalism that they profess, or the R's would practice the economic conservatism that they profess. Right now I'm getting the worst of both worlds from both parties. Posted by: russell garrard
This is the bill that finally had me write this state off as permanently "Blue". The ignorant masses don't see the hypocrisy in it and the intellectual invalid's that do say "well,I'm a Democrat and the Democrats passed it so it must be good for us...Right?"
Washington is indeed a "Nanny state". Posted by: Rick D.
Hinton has it. This is all about the tribes and Gregoire. Notice all the new Emerald Queen stuff going up in Tacoma and Fife? And it is close, so not a lot of gas getting to the tables. All that is in jeopardy if people stay home and gamble online.
Gregoire is just a puppet of unions and tribes. Posted by: Jeff B.
It's always amusing to watch social conservatives observe the effect of their intrusion into personal life when it finally gets so powerful it intrudes into some aspect of their life as well.
social conservative logic/trolling But as for myself, I think gambling is stupid because I know how to calculate odds. Also I think it's a sin because I'm a Christian. So it doesn't affect me, and if you aren't doing anything wrong then it won't bother you either ;) /social conservative logic/trolling Posted by: Andrew Brown
Starting July 1, about 1,100 online retailers will start charging tax to buyers in Washington. Their names are a secret, because they are granted amnesty from Washington for any taxes that should have been collected in the past.
I wonder if there is a way to obtain their names through public disclosure request? Posted by: DopioLover
The nanny-state Democrats who approved this state law did it "for the children", which of course, is a load of bunk. Just another example of state politicians who like protecting us from ourselves. What's worse, it's a CLASS C FELONY, on par with child molestors. You would have to commit 5 DUI's before the punishment would be equivalent of being convicted of this crime.
And Cato, while I opposed that legislation too, there was zero chance you would have been prosecuted for playing online poker under that federal law without the state law banning it. That federal law was a deterrent to online gambling websites, who have all moved off-shore anyway. Posted by: Palouse
Wow, all of 2 years.......what a long standing legal precedent.
Actually I don't on-line gamble, but I can't help but see the hypocrisy of the State endorsing gambling by selling Lottery tickets and receiving huge sums of contribution money from Tribal and other Casinos. If you took off those partisan blue blinders once in awhile you'd recognize it as well. But hey,power to the Sheeple , right? Nothing short of a racketeering operation to most sane Washingtonians.
But hey, it's the best Government money can buy right? Posted by: Rick D.
Oh, Cato, "internet gambling" is NOT against the law. You cite the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006. You should read it before you quote it.
It does not make gambling illegal on the internet, it makes the transfer money to/from gambling websites illegal. Get your facts straight.
Most politicians will cite the outdated Wire Act (which makes the placing of wagers over telephone lines illegal) as the vehicle for judging that online wagering is illegal, but the fact is Congress has never directly addressed the issue of U.S. citzens placing wagers over the internet.
The fact is, if gambling can be regulated and taxed by the Government, as it is in almost every state, why is it not being done on the internet?
The answer is because Congress is so busy trying to make things illegal that they can't see the forest for the trees. They could tax and regulate online poker that they could generate billions in revenues from legal online poker companies. It would also protect U.S. players from some of the current online websites that cheat players, such as Absolute and Ultimate Bet. Currently, all online poker sites are overseas companies, and U.S. players are at the their complete mercy.
Why don't regulate it instead of imposing laws against doing something (playing a game called poker) that does not negatively impact the rest of society that decides not to play? Posted by: Easycure
Now this one has more Ds in there, since it's actually the 'SAFE Port Act'. But it is the one that finally got the gambling law into effect.
Sorry brother, but you've been betrayed by your own party on this one as well as the dems. Washington just happened to have nanny state people in power with a D behind their name instead of an R when they passed it locally.
It's the same 'I'll tell you what you can do in your own home attitude', whether it's a D or an R. Posted by: Andrew Brown
Margarite Prentice (D) Renton.Yes, some numbskull Republicans helped pass it and I hope they are thrown out on their ear next election.
Now Mr. Brown. Why is On-line gambling a sin, but State sanctioned gambling not a sin? A little consistency on your part would be nice seeing as you're a good christian and all, right? Posted by: Rick D.
Yes, some numbskull Republicans helped pass it and I hope they are thrown out on their ear next
Good luck convincing the Pam Roach/Ellen Craswell wing of the GOP to accept expanded gambling in this state. They got Morals which they would like to impose on you via the Govt.
Why is On-line gambling a sin
Gambling is a sin in Judeo-Christian religions.
but State sanctioned gambling not a sin?
State sanctioned gambling? You mean tribal casinos on tribal land which operate in semi-autonomous regions located in isolated locales within the Washington State? Treaties with Native Americans state that they can do this if they are a federally recognized tribe. Don't expect your boy McCain to argue in favor of changing this, he rebuked Sen. Gorton a few years ago for messing with the treaties.
Posted by: Cato
So that's the excuse/strategy for the local nanny-state apologists. Look! The feds did it too and they are REPUBLICAN! Wrong. You would NEVER have been prosecuted for playing online poker under that federal law. N-E-V-E-R. Not until this state law was enacted. That is where the destruction of liberty/nanny-statism happened. Posted by: Palouse
Gambling is a sin in Judeo-Christian religions."
Then the queston begs, why is the state complicit in this sin?
I thought I made it clear @19 that my reference to state sanctioned gambling was "lottery". I see you conveniently "glossed" over that little tidbit, while trying to negotiate the obvious hypocrisy of this law. Posted by: Rick D.
Wrong. You would NEVER have been prosecuted for playing online poker under that federal law. N-E-V-E-R.
It's illegal to transfer money to online gambling sites. If you play online poker for money then you are breaking the law. You saying the Govt. should only enforce certain laws while looking the war for others?
The label "Nanny State" title only applies to laws you don't like...funny how the GOP have no issues with other nanny state issues like the sodomy laws...I seem to recall Ragnar getting in a big whiny tantrum about the decline of American values when the Supreme Court overturned that law.
Posted by: Cato
Cato - the federal law only made it more difficult for the online gambling websites to collect and return your money. However, and I repeat again, you would NEVER have been prosecuted for playing poker on those sites under that federal law. Therefore, there was no destruction of your liberty/nanny-statism under that law. Get it?
There is a HUGE difference between that federal law and the criminalization of online poker by the Washington legislature/Gregoire. Posted by: Palouse
There is a HUGE difference between that federal law and the criminalization of online poker by the Washington legislature/Gregoire.
Against the law is still against the law...drunk driving is against the law...lets let all drunk drives off because the Nanny State is enforcing the laws passed on behalf of the voters who elected them.
Posted by: Cato
Can't you bring yourself to be intellectually honest and admit that the state shouldn't be complicit in sanctioning one form of gambling while making another form of gambling a class "C" Felony without being hypocritical? The only reason on-line gambling is illegal is:
A) it doesn't filter back to the Bureucrats in Olympia ; and
B) It forces would-be gamblers to the legal establishments that do filter money back to the Bureacrats in Olympia or risk being placed in the same legal classification as a repeat drunk driving offender or child molester.
This should be investigated under the RICO statutes. Posted by: Rick D.
Can't you bring yourself to be intellectually honest and admit that the state shouldn't be complicit in sanctioning one form of gambling while making another form of gambling a class "C" Felony without being hypocritic?
Sure, state can regulate something like the lottery and horse racing, set the odds, define the terms for which you can gamble. The state cannot regulate the online gambling industry which may or may not exist within the states borders. They can't set the odds or even prosecute individuals/companies that do monetary harm to Washington State residents. So rather than try to regulate something they can't control they just ban it.
Sooner or later someone would get burned and try to sue claiming they were defrauded while playing AnyoneCanWinAtPoker.com. They ask the state to shut it down, state has it's hands tied since the internet companies physical locale could be in the Cayman Islands or out of reach of US law.
You can still play online poker, just not with US Currency.
Posted by: Cato
So Cato's argument has shifted from ""Gambling is a sin in Judeo-Christian religions." to "rather than try to regulate something they can't control they just ban it".
Will these goalposts keep shifting Cato? or is this your final answer?
Margarita Prentice proposed and urged the bill in order to protect her large investment in "legal" gambling operations which had money flowing into her coffers. When on-Line gambling began eating into her profit margin, Margarita (like and good mafia boss would do) decided to shut them down the easiest way she knew how in her position...by making it illegal!
Google Ms. Prentice and you find all sorts of interesting things about her including her ties to the Washington state gambling commission and is known to be "extremely loyal and just as extremely vindictive".
As they say, Follow the money. Posted by: Rick D.
Nice try Ricky, my argument is still the same... Federal Law says it's illegal and you can't expect law enforcement to follow certain laws and not others. No goalposts to move here.
Personally I don't care. I don't gamble because I think it's a waste of money, I have no problems letting others waste their money doing it. I'm also not a member of the "Judeo/Christian Morality via Govt." wing of the GOP which encourages and trumpets the passage of legislation like this.
I'm just stating how the state likely sees it...they want to avoid situations like this
Lottery and Horse Racing are heavily regulated by the state...internet gambling is very likely beyond the reach of US law. Tribal land is run by local tribal govt, the US has stated that if you are a recognized tribe you can build a casino on your land.
Hecj, the tribes can't even get slot machines, why would the state expand off-tribe gambling?
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Initiative 671 . Shall amended tribal/state agreements be authorized permitting limited electronic gaming on Indian lands for tribal government purposes, with joint regulation and specified use of revenues?
Yes 751,103 (44%)
Federal Law says it's illegal and you can't expect law enforcement to follow certain laws and not others."
...um yeah, kind of like the strict state enforcement of our federal immigration laws, Right? Cops can't even ask the citizenship of a person stopped for a criminal violation except in one or two counties in this state.
If it is such a problem statewide you obviously can put forth some Washington state cases correct?
As I said, I don't on-line gamble (and if I did I wouldn't admit it here), but I'd like some consistency in the laws in this state.
To have the State running the largest gambling enterprise in the state and then coming down on a fairly innocuous and in most cases harmless pasttime that consumers can pursue in the privacy of their homes, I see a real chasm in logic.
Posted by: Rick D.
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